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Munk's SSW Guide for the Lazy (requires some IOTMs)

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  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Munk's SSW Guide for the Lazy (requires some IOTMs)
    Munk's SSW Guide for the Lazy (requires some IOTMs)
    ------------------------------------------------------

    This guide is written from the point of view of a Builder who can't play the Endgame for obvious reasons, so consider that part to be pure theory based on observation of some 19 cycles and what the winners did to win. Thus, apply grains of salt where desired to add spice to your own playstyle. I bounced some of these ideas off of xkiv to check the math and altered to fit the conclusions, so at least some of it supposedly makes sense.

    Prologue: Your goal is to achieve high rank on a winning team. The winning team (Society) is the one that can co-ordinate the manpower and resources to dominate space with drones for 7 straight days. Everything else is fluff and nonsense. To succeed requires at least one leader (usually the Poo-Bah to some extent, even if the tactical planning and decisions are handled by officers) and at least a handful of active, available players. You can't win it alone.

    This guide does not cover that leadership except in a general sense. I've never done it, so the focus will be mainly on the optimal way to build up your resources so that you can play an integral role in such a team. Let's begin.

    1) on Reset, run the initial questline and then do one Capitalist dimit all the way to 33 for your second mining tool and a 1-point Capitalist boost. You now have 10k drones, a few construction kits and at least one DoppelPet. Once you hit this point, you're basically going to switch gears and go into Mining/Trading mode.

    2) always keep the same DoppelPet on you, and train that one only. This one DP should never go in a factory, only equipped or in the cage. This will be your Battle Token Generator - that DP will spend its hours gaining EXP and crafting you ever-increasing piles of Battle Tokens. Keep its health up every hour. Buy every DP that becomes available, but all the others will become factory workers. They will all skill up in your factories except your MAIN PET.

    3) Use as many of your turns as possible from now on mining. Since this is the lazy guide, you need not bother with quests and NPC mobs ever again. You'll get your stats and food from Mining (mine 10 *always*) via lunchboxes and buy whatever the best drinks you can get from an NPC store, and supplement the food with the best you can get at NPC stores. In this second phase, use your trades in cycles of selling some of the ore you mine and then buying drones.

    3a) If you have the Display Case Interest Trojan, start saving up any cash you don't spend on drones in your DC. Over the Building phase of the game, try to save up a large buffer of cash for the 7 days of your society's takeover bid.

    3b) If you have the Display Case Drone Reproduction Virus, drop all your drones into your DC until you hit 50,000 - otherwise, put 'em in space and start claiming your 3 asteroids. When you hit 50,000 drones in the DC, put your next drones in space to claim your 3 asteroids.

    3c) Save some of your 3 manufacturing ores to fuel your upcoming factories to start out. Also help out with your Society's ore donation schedule. You'll really want those low prices on a predictable schedule. Balance your ore usage as needed.

    3d) Use all battle tokens gained to buy trade-recharge hypos. Use the hypos and get your Trade EXP up fast.

    3e) Pay attention to the alignments of the traders you sell ore to. You gain a lot of power *opposite their alignment* when you sell them ore. Make sure you gain the power you want to rise in the ranks of your Society.

    4) When you have sufficient forces on your asteroids (around 5,000 or more per sector) and there are sufficient DPs available to start planning factories, start putting them down. This guide presupposes you have the ACME Factory Ore De-Randomizer so you can choose which 3 ores all of your drone factories will be. I started my example in a game where there were 61 DPs available, so that allowed me to create 20 fully-staffed factories and keep one DP as my Token Maker. I balanced these so:

    5 Bof Mines
    7 Nimby Mines
    4 Peb Mines
    4 Drone Factories

    I'll be balancing that out further, perhaps swap a Nimby for a Peb, but to start out, this allows me to mainly mine Peb only and keep all 4 drone facs running. You'll have to balance as needed for however many DPs are available to you at any given time.

    5) Once my factories are set up, staffed and running smooth, we go back to cycles of using our trades for either selling excess ore and stockpiling cash alternating with cycles of using trades to buy drones. Sync this activity with your Society's ore donation schedule for best drone pricing. Every drone you get should go into space (other than your DC 50k), protecting your assets. Do not hold anything in reserve. Drones in space cost your enemy roughly a drone and a third to dislodge, while drones in reserves usually have to be spent at that disadvantage dislodging your enemy's drones. Lather, rinse, repeat.

    6) At this point, you should be well-connected with your team and have decided which Society you will be. Communication is key: you want to communicate and know what your team is doing *and* you want to communicate with the other teams for diplomatic reasons. You will always want to keep the door open for members of other teams to defect to you, and you will want to be a part of the grapevine of information and disinformation so you have a good feel for what others are doing. Project force as needed, but keep your main assets well-defended with every drone you have. Be a Hard Target.

    The War Phase and Endgame
    -------------------------
    At some point, when a team feels they have amassed enough drones and cash to make a takeover bid, they organize a coverage of Space. It is very good to be the first to do this, because you're immediately forcing everyone else to spend their Reserves on your Defense. The problem is in playing your Defense at an attrition rate that doesn't exhaust what you've put in space plus what your team can continue to produce for 7 days.

    You might even want to scrap your factories when you make a takeover bid so your DPs all make Tokens which you trade for Hypos to increase how many drones you can buy for those last 7 days. With a large number of well-skilled DPs, you can make more tokens per day than you can spend on hypos (500/day limit?), so if that happens to you, buy all the hypos you can use and spend the remaining tokens on drones, to supplement your cash reserves. Maximize your drone buys at this point and save the ore you mine for rebuilding factories if your takeover bid fails. The more ore you have saved up, the more drone factories you can fuel right away with fewer support mines for a quick recharge of your exhausted drone forces.

    If you follow this guide well, it doesn't take much time investment per day in the building phase, but you will be able to amass enough resources to be a very valuable member of a winning team. Add in your own endgame tactics and organizational skills and become a well-heeled leader of a team, if you'd like.

    IOTMs Required:
    ---------------
    Actually only one, the ACME Facility Ore De-Randomizer. This allows you to choose which 3 ores your Drone Factories will use, and will be a great help to your organizing your ore inputs.

    Strongly Recommended:
    ACME Miner's Helmet (extra ore per turn mining)
    Display Case Drone Reproduction Virus (basically a mid-range Drone Factory that you don't have to waste DPs staffing or ore/shields/batteries fueling. Downside: you have to keep up to 50k drones out of space and everyone can look at your DC to see them.)
    Donny Dronefighter's Mini-DMG (5 chances at 10k free drones every day. 'nuff said.)

    If you're looking to beef up your efficiency in +cash, +turns or +trades per day, you might also take a gander at these, depending on your needs.

    Recommended +cash:
    ACME Money Press, Easy Button, Max Million's Mini-MMG (5 chances each per day at a million Starbux jackpot!)
    Display Case Interest Trojan (2% interest per rollover on all Starbux stashed in your DC on rollover. Upside: it's twice as good as stashing your cash in the bank. Downside: everyone can look in your DC and see how much money you have.)

    Recommended for more eating/drinking:
    ACME Laxative Slacks (extra bathroom uses per day)
    Jim Baccus Booze Belt (makes it appear that you are 3 less drunk than you actually are)
    Weight Cheater Choker (Food items eaten will have a 20% chance of not causing fullness)

    Recommended +turns:
    Timenesium Tennis Shoes (+2 turns/hr)
    Timenesium Trousers (+2 turns/hr)
    Timenesium T-Shirt (+2 turns/hr)
    Timeslip Timepiece (+2 turns/hr)

    Recommended +trades:
    Trading Visor (+50 trades/hr)
    Envision Success Moneyshades (+50 trades/hr)
    Market Madness Boots (+50 trades/hr)
    Zurichite Artifact (5 chances at a handful of Trade Recharge Hypos per day, 10 if you have everything needed to turn it into a Thingwidget)
    Honty Mall's "Let's Deal!" Game (5 chances/day at a jackpot of 1000 trade hypos)
  • Posted By: xKiv  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    1)
    > You now have 10k drones, a few construction kits and at least one DoppelPet.

    Didn't you use up those kits to become 33 twice?
    And the game doesn't let me past 31 without 3 pets, a mine with just two isn't enough.

    2)
    comparison of pet usefulness, because what I calculated in chat was wrong, and people can find errors in this easier if I post it; also I calculated with 300 hypos/day limit, not 500:
    A) assuming 12 mines and 3 factories (45 pets) at 20+hp, that's below 4500 drones/day
    B) those same pets produce
    at 300xp produce 1800 tokens/day
    at 3000xp (and 25 health) 11688 tokens/day

    now either 20 tokens = 1 hypo = about 20 trades = about 6 drones (if you are making ore donations and can make 125 profit per ore, and each drone needs 3 trades (buy ore, sell ore, buy drone)
    ... 0.3 drone/token, up to 10000 tokens (if the limit is 500 hypos/day)

    or 40 tokens = 20 drones (20 tokens for hypo, 20 tokens and the hypo's trades for 20 drones)
    ... 0.5 drone/token, up to 35000 tokens
    -- so you always want to use this strategy (more drones and higher limit), unless you still need more tradexp

    B.1 - all pets have 300xp: using them for tokens gets you 00 drones with the seco (compared to almost 4500 in factories)
    B.2 - all pets have 3000xp: using them for tokens gets you 5844 drones/day
    you hit the 500 hypos limit (35000 tokens) with about 427k xp distributed among the 45 pets (about 9500 xp on each of them), at which point tokenizing them would be worth 17500 drones/day

    The thing is that you won't have them all even at 3000xp - at the end of the previous cycle, we had maybe 15k famxp from fighting and mining (distributed through all pets), and facility pets had maybe 1000 each?.
  • Posted By: Salen  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    I believe that when you dimit the facilities are put back into kits again aren't they?
  • Posted By: BabylonHoruv  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "xKiv":  

    1)
    > You now have 10k drones, a few construction kits and at least one DoppelPet.

    Didn't you use up those kits to become 33 twice?
    And the game doesn't let me past 31 without 3 pets, a mine with just two isn't enough.

    2)
    comparison of pet usefulness, because what I calculated in chat was wrong, and people can find errors in this easier if I post it; also I calculated with 300 hypos/day limit, not 500:
    A) assuming 12 mines and 3 factories (45 pets) at 20+hp, that's below 4500 drones/day
    B) those same pets produce
    at 300xp produce 1800 tokens/day
    at 3000xp (and 25 health) 11688 tokens/day

    now either 20 tokens = 1 hypo = about 20 trades = about 6 drones (if you are making ore donations and can make 125 profit per ore, and each drone needs 3 trades (buy ore, sell ore, buy drone)
    ... 0.3 drone/token, up to 10000 tokens (if the limit is 500 hypos/day)

    or 40 tokens = 20 drones (20 tokens for hypo, 20 tokens and the hypo's trades for 20 drones)
    ... 0.5 drone/token, up to 35000 tokens
    -- so you always want to use this strategy (more drones and higher limit), unless you still need more tradexp

    B.1 - all pets have 300xp: using them for tokens gets you 00 drones with the seco (compared to almost 4500 in factories)
    B.2 - all pets have 3000xp: using them for tokens gets you 5844 drones/day
    you hit the 500 hypos limit (35000 tokens) with about 427k xp distributed among the 45 pets (about 9500 xp on each of them), at which point tokenizing them would be worth 17500 drones/day

    The thing is that you won't have them all even at 3000xp - at the end of the previous cycle, we had maybe 15k famxp from fighting and mining (distributed through all pets), and facility pets had maybe 1000 each?.



    I mine for my ore to sell. 1 turn gets ~10 ore, plus a chance at a lunchbox, and no starbux cost, that seems more efficient than trading for it, am I missing something?

    Also, how do pets make battle tokens?
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "BabylonHoruv":  

    Also, how do pets make battle tokens?



    with great care and excellent craftsmanship. You cannot tell them from the real thing. :D
  • Posted By: grimdel  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "BabylonHoruv":  

    Also, how do pets make battle tokens?



    Feed them after midnight? Its not like you have little baggies to pick up after them (or do you?)
  • Posted By: crashnburn11  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    You guys seem to know what the token generation formula is.... what exactly is it?
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "crashnburn11":  

    You guys seem to know what the token generation formula is.... what exactly is it?



    floor((SUM(xp)+(10*SUM(health)))/300)
    where "xp" is the pooled sum of DP XP of all pets in cage and equipped (not factory workers) and "health" is the sum of their health.
  • Posted By: xKiv  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "BabylonHoruv":  


    I mine for my ore to sell. 1 turn gets ~10 ore, plus a chance at a lunchbox, and no starbux cost, that seems more efficient than trading for it, am I missing something?



    That's just extra. You have those turns anyway, so you mine anyway, so you have extra ore to sell or stuff into factories and make/buy extra drones that way.
    It doesn't change how many drones you make just from pets.
  • Posted By: xKiv  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "munk":  

      Quote "crashnburn11":  

    You guys seem to know what the token generation formula is.... what exactly is it?



    floor((SUM(xp)+(10*SUM(health)))/300)
    where "xp" is the pooled sum of DP XP of all pets in cage and equipped (not factory workers) and "health" is the sum of their health.



    Now one (close to final) thing missing from that is the relation between xp and hp (because most of my pets will have health=hp most of the time).
    It seems to be a bit random though, like it's something like "whenever the pet gains xp: if (rand(xp) > somefunction(current hp)) then hp++"?
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "xKiv":  

      Quote "munk":  

      Quote "crashnburn11":  

    You guys seem to know what the token generation formula is.... what exactly is it?



    floor((SUM(xp)+(10*SUM(health)))/300)
    where "xp" is the pooled sum of DP XP of all pets in cage and equipped (not factory workers) and "health" is the sum of their health.



    Now one (close to final) thing missing from that is the relation between xp and hp (because most of my pets will have health=hp most of the time).
    It seems to be a bit random though, like it's something like "whenever the pet gains xp: if (rand(xp) > somefunction(current hp)) then hp++"?



    if you're asking how DP's HP is calculated, that's:
    floor(10+log(xp,1.705329)) < 3000 for a range of 10 to 25
  • Posted By: xKiv  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Which means that the exact point when a 100% healthy pet should start producing tokens is 120 xp (with exactly 18 hp).
  • Posted By: UniqueCrash5  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    I am quite lazy by these standards. Good to know. With FEZ, all things are possible!

    However, the realization that I could be trading token for hypos instead of drones is facepalm-worthy. Frustration beyond measure.
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Addendum: after a few days experimentation with my 3-roid arrangement and some pondering and discussion with xkiv regarding optimal HP and facility arrangements, I've altered my little empire to just 2 asteroids.

    One idea tossed around is the concept of keeping your hitpoints below 100 to take advantage of the turns/trades regen pivot that happens when you reach 100 HP. Before 100 HP, your regen on the 15 minute mark is 2 turns and 10 trades. After 100 HP that switches to 1 turn and 20 trades every 15 minutes. The hourly turns/trades regen is the same for both. By my math at my current trade EXP level, it seems to make sense for me to stay below 100 HP so I can use the extra turns for mining in the building phase of the game. This allows me to have fewer mining facilities to maintain support for more drone facilities. Later on the numbers might flip to where it's optimal to be 100HP to have more trades for buying drones (especially once the actual war starts and 'roids will be harder to find unguarded).

    My current facility distribution looks like so:
    4 Nimby Mines
    10 Bof Mines
    7 Drone Factories

    This produces all of the Bof ore I need and some of the Nimby ore. The rest of the Nimby and Peb ore I need gets mined. At the moment, this seems to balance, but I suspect I will become cash starved soon because I'm doing much less trading. Fortunately a 6 million starbuck buffer saved up from previous trading will give me enough time to balance if the formula is a little off, and at the moment, I can still burn up extra trades on drone buys.

    Approx Drone yield per day is 1152 drones per factory, for a trade-free total of 8064/day plus what I can buy with trades, which adds up to around 12k/day. Not too bad for the lazy way.

    Consolidating down to 2 asteroids also freed up drone forces for heavier defense on the roids I kept. Currently fielding around 120k drones in space and 50k in the DC. While I feel this arrangement is profitable and relatively balanced between fuel generation and trade burning (never, ever, ever *buy* ore from a port, only sell the ore you mine!), I suspect that in a couple of days I might need to move a bof mine or two to the nimby roid to keep the balance, but for now I'm producing more ore than I'm using to build drones and my assets are well-defended. Further reports as more is learned.
  • Posted By: Rickton  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    So you mine 8064 ore a day for drones plus more for trading? How many turns does that take? I know that you'll get lots of good food from lunchboxes doing that (and as a bonus you're basically guaranteed to be able to do the Flambe quest every day), but it seems like fullness might still be a limiting factor.
  • Posted By: xKiv  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "Rickton":  

    So you mine 8064 ore a day for drones plus more for trading? How many turns does that take? That seems like a lot of mining...do the lunchboxes you get cover all that?



    He's mining about 0.6*8064 nimbyte and 8064 of pebkacium. Which is about, uh 1300 turns/day jsut mining? Which doesn't seem like something most can do.

    Lunchboxes definitely don't cover it. Best repeatable turngen will be (with some luck and help from lunchboxae averaged into it) perhaps 4 turns/stomach and 8 turns/liver, with 12000 constitution being around, um, 17 total space each,
    with laxitive pants' +bathroom, weight choker (effectively +25% total eaten things) and baccus belt (effectively something like +6 drunken things/day) ...
    (24+2*17)*1.25*4+(24+2*17+6)*8+24*(4*2+something like 20 at the top of the hour)=
    estimated 1474 turns
    well that escalated quickly

    for comparison, I have 909 turns played yesterday, 1364 the day before (used up most of my best lunchbox food from before), and 800 the day before that.

    ETA: wait, how much ore do you get per "mine 10" with two tools at 100% and a super experienced pet, again? 100? 200? 50?
  • Posted By: crashnburn11  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    I get around 1300-1400 a day with a lazy purchased diet, so that seems about right
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    I eat lunchbox food and sweaty tacos, drink lawnguys. I'm not sure I have my input/output balanced as yet, the past couple days the cheater choker and bathroom have been kind, so I've had a good amount of excess ore. Not sure I can still mine enough to sell, but right now I have a cash stockpile so burning trades isn't an issue yet. The thing is, it doesn't cost much to scrap a facility or two and switch them to mine something I'm getting short on, so the flexibility is there to twist one throttle back and apply gas somewhere else.
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "xKiv":  

    ETA: wait, how much ore do you get per "mine 10" with two tools at 100% and a super experienced pet, again? 100? 200? 50?



    I average 70-180 per 10-hit. average seems to be around 120. It occasionally will break 200.
  • Posted By: xKiv  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "munk":  

      Quote "xKiv":  

    ETA: wait, how much ore do you get per "mine 10" with two tools at 100% and a super experienced pet, again? 100? 200? 50?



    I average 70-180 per 10-hit. average seems to be around 120. It occasionally will break 200.



    That's about 30% more than I was using in my calculations. This might change the balance a bit (maybe by +- 1 factory)
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "xKiv":  

    That's about 30% more than I was using in my calculations. This might change the balance a bit (maybe by +- 1 factory)



    as of this morning, it seems to balance acceptably. after mining peb/nimby this morning with a bit over 800 turns and using all my trades to sell 5000 peb, I now have 900+ fuel remaining in DF's, plus 8000+ peb, 7000 nimby, and nearly 7000 bof. in a couple hours, I'll have 7k Bof and can drop another 1k fuel in each DF. That puts me about 5 hours ahead of where I was yesterday in fuel at the cost of about 600k in cash reserves less than what I had yesterday at this time due to that being my drone buy day. It is not especially tough to balance, especially since I usually have a day's warning if I'm going to run out of something, and as long as I keep a few kits/shields/batteries in inventory to quickly switch things around, I can see it being sustainable.

    The tricky balance point seem to be maintaining cash reserves by trading without starving for fuel. A few more nub DPs would be nice - could use maybe 2 more mines on the Nimby to really achieve a good, lazy maintenance balance.
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    UPDATE: 10pm, and now have 26.5 hours of fuel in my 7 DFs, gained a bit of cash (just +500k, but spent about 3.5k trades and a large chunk of profits on the day's trading on drones since they were cheap. 8064+3500+whatever the DC Virus interest is gets me around +12k drones for the day. Just moved one Bof mine to Nimby because I was generating a bit too much Bof. One nub made it to the 9th degree today, raising hopes I could fill out that one weak factory, but that seems to have not panned out.
    Mines:
    9 Bof = +9,072/day
    5 Nimby = +3,936/day
    7 DFs = +8064 drones/day
    Holding:
    Bof: 5,847
    Nimby: 3,250
    Peb: 1,807
    Space Drones: 151,600
    DC Drones: 50,000
    DC Cash: 6,500,000

    Thus, the mines will round out Nimby and easily blow past the goal for Bof. I should prolly, now that I'm looking at the numbers, go scrap another bof mine and move it to Nimby. (:

    The "hours of fuel for X factories/+X Cash/+X Drones" measurement seems to cover the major bases in gauging how successful the method is - so from now on, I'll track those figures more closely and report.

    Rollin' Illuminati
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Update, 9am: was able to mine about 7k Peb this morning with my 520 turns, so have Bof overfilled, Peb filled and Nimby at 5,223, on track for 7k in a few hours. Had lots of trades surplus, so went ahead and bought another +3k drones because apparently every day is cheap drone day when you're Green. Blew my 500k profit from yeaterday on this and my next move...

    Then I made a terrible mistake, which serves as a Teaching Moment. I blew 2230 trades and a chunk of the aforementioned cash on enough Construction Kits, Shield Gens and D Batteries to scrap all 8 of my Bof Mines and turn them into Fwiwzium mines, thinking to move over to a less-utilized "cheap" input ore. However, 8 Fwiwz mines only poop out 7776 ore/day, leaving me about 300/day short to keep pace with 7 DFs which want to be fed at the rate of 8064/day.

    Le *sigh*

    Well, it's done, so I'll have to just make the best of it.
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Update: High noon
    Went ahead and rebuilt my Bof mines, and learned another important lesson: never scrap your mines. I just moved my DPs from the Fwiwz mines to the Bof mines and left the Fwiwz mines there in case I need them later. They'll survive as long as they have charged shields, so you can go back and top off the batteries every so often. So annoyed that I spent another batch of cash & trades on 3k drones. I'll make my 12k drones today, but again, dropped around 3/4 a million in cash.

    The good news was I managed to get 7k Nimby with a bit of mining and refueled all DFs. They now stand at +33 hours of fuel, at a gain of 7 hours over last refueling. I now have 33 hours worth of turn regen to gather another 8k mined fuel. any mining I can muster above that is pure profit, so a key vector is moving that "hours of Fuel" number higher for each refueling. Maybe soon I can stop bleeding cash to keep my daily dronecount gain up at that 12k goal.
    Mines:
    8 Bof = +9,024/day
    6 Nimby = +4,824/day
    7 DFs = +8,064 drones/day
    Holding:
    Bof: 2,585
    Nimby: 47
    Peb: 1,557
    Space Drones: 159,594
    DC Drones: 50,000
    DC Cash: 5,750,000
  • Posted By: Salen  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    so it seems to me that this is the exact opposite of "Lazy", it should be the "dedicated player's way to rule the universe" LOL! looks awesome but way to complicated for me to follow right now:) great job spading this you guys rock
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "Salen":  

    so it seems to me that this is the exact opposite of "Lazy", it should be the "dedicated player's way to rule the universe" LOL! looks awesome but way to complicated for me to follow right now:) great job spading this you guys rock



    actual, optimal would be Capitalist Dimit every day for 2 weeks right at the start of the cycle for a massive power/trades/turns/cash and DRONES head-start before slipping into Facility Builder mode as Step 1 of the guide. That's Poo-Bah level optimization. I'm selling Officer-level optimization. :D
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Update: 11pm.
    Well, wasted a lot of trades and cash on morning mistakes, but have since balanced things to compensate, and it looks like I end the day +11k drones and -100k starbux over yesterday this time. I have balanced my mines to deliver enough Bof and Nimby ore in exactly 10 hours to refuel my DFs again at 9am. The trick will be to amass enough turns to mine 6k Peb in those 10 hours. No problemo. I figured out how to do that by sitting down with a calculator to figure a small table of production levels per hour, and cross-reference against the ore I had on hand - the goal being to have both Bof and Nimby filled up by mines at as close to the same time as possible in the morning:

    Have Bof: 5,777
    Have Nim: 2,862
    Have Peb: 1,002

    if 8 Nimby Mines = +296/hr = 7014/day = 14hrs to fill 4138 quota
    if 9 Nimby Mines = +333/hr = 7992/day = 12hrs to fill 4138 quota
    if 10 Nimby Mines = +370/hr = 8880/day = 11hrs to fill 4138 quota
    if 11 Nimby Mines = +407/hr = 9768/day *** winner @ 10hrs to fill 4138 quota

    if 6 Bofo Mines = +252/hr = 6048/day
    if 3 Bofo Mines = +126/hr = 3024/day *** 3 remaining bof mines will fill up quota in 9hrs, even before the 11 Nimby Mines fill up quota.

    7 DFs = 336/hr = 8064/day

    Need Ore Via Mines:
    --------------------------------------
    1223 Bof - 9 hrs via 3 mines
    4138 Nim - 10 hrs via 11 mines

    Need to Mine 6k Peb by 9am.

    Space Drones: 162,498 (+10,898/day)
    DC Drones: 50,000
    DC Cash: 6,400,000 (-100,000/day)
    DF Fuel: +22/hrs, refuel @ 9am (in 10 hrs)

    Getting good enough at this I can start predicting exactly when things will happen :D
  • Posted By: Rakkasan  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "munk":  

    Getting good enough at this I can start predicting exactly when things will happen :D



    And that, kids, is the key to the kingdom.
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Update: 9am
    Well the math worked out perfectly. Regenned a bit over 500 turns to mine around 6k Peb. My mines pooped out exactly what I needed to refuel and now I'm back up to 33 hrs of fuel with 34 turns to spare. Then I moved some crews around to even out my mines for the next fuel-up. I scrapped those Nimby mines and used the cash and my tokens to buy drones since I'm still running into the problem of having more trades than I can use without bleeding cash. Kinda wondering if it'd be worth the trade loss to use a pump once in awhile... Heh, too many trades - now that's a first-world problem. :D

    Have Bof: 37
    Have Nim: 73
    Have Peb: 22

    7 Nimby Mines = +259/hr = 6216/day
    7 Bofo Mines = +294/hr = 7056/day
    7 DFs = 336/hr = 8064/day
    Space Drones: 167,528
    DC Drones: 50,000
    DC Cash: 6,400,000
    DF Fuel: +33/hrs

    At its root, the Lazy Builder method yields X Drones plus either Fuel Hours or Cash. If you want Cash, you sacrifice Fuel Hours. If you want Fuel Hours, you burn Cash. Trades ends up being a surplus, especially if you're saving up cash for endgame. The interesting thing is that you need Trades to spend that Cash in endgame, so stockpiling Hypos begins to have value. I'll have to run some numbers on how many trades it would take to spend my target of stockpile Cash on Drones...
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Update: 11pm.
    Did another wacky thing and scrapped all my Nimby mines and switched my mid-tier ore for DFs to Imhozium - the cheapest the of mid-tier ores. This was costly, but I paid the cost in Fuel Hours. Basically, I'm burning my remaining 19 Fuel-hours on switching all of my drone factories to a new ore tomorrow.

    On the plus side, I maintained 10K+ in drone gains over yesterday, and actually made a bunch of cash!

    If you ask *why* I would waste so many trades and cash on switching to a new mid-tier ore, the answer is mainly that the cheapest ores produce more yield in your hand-mining and your Mining Facilities. In this case, switching earns me an extra (at my current settings) 216 ore per day worth of production. Not much, but when you consider that's around 20 turns hand-mining, you see where it adds up. Bonus: it made thematic sense to not have a big green NIMBY sector in the Grey team's backyard. IMHO, the Imhozium ore is the better mid-tier ore to use for your DFs, IYKWIM. :D

    anyway, to the numbers:
    Have Bof: 3,103
    Have Imho: 3,344
    Have Peb: 3,070

    9 Imho Mines = +342/hr = 8208/day 10hrs to 7k total
    5 Bofo Mines = +210/hr = 5040/day 18hrs to 7k total
    7 DFs = 336/hr = 8064/day
    Space Drones: 173,160 (+10,662/day)
    DC Drones: 50,000
    DC Cash: 7,000,000 (+600,000/day)
    DF Fuel: +19/hrs (old nimby-fueled factories)
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Update: 10am.
    Completed the switchover from Nimby to Imhozium this morning as soon as I hit 7k Imho ore. Final cost of the maneuver? 13 Fuel Hours. I think I now have the optimal ore combination - the 3 cheapest ores: Bofo/Imho/Peb.
    DF production doesn't care about price - it cares about quantity. :D
    Still running a bit of surplus of Bofo, so I'll keep the Imho mines running hot for a few more hours.
    Also made another 600k in cash selling off my excess Nimby ore, so the cash stockpile keeps creeping towards my target 10 million Starbux.

    this morning's numbers:
    Have Bof: 1,157
    Have Imho: 196
    Have Peb: 987

    9 Imho Mines = +342/hr = 8208/day
    5 Bofo Mines = +210/hr = 5040/day
    7 DFs = 336/hr = 8064/day
    Space Drones: 177,568
    DC Drones: 50,000
    DC Cash: 7,600,000
    DF Fuel: +20/hrs (shiny, new IMHO/BOF/PEB-fueled factories)
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Update: 11pm.
    Decided I wanted to pump up my cash and Fuel Hours today, so this afternoon I moved some crews around to cut back my DFs to just 5 and run my mines hot for a bit. The numbers worked out and I just squeaked in a fresh refueling now to bring up my Fuel Hours to +28, gaining 8 hours over last refuel. Xkiv has some spreadsheet that claims 5 DFs can be better than 7 in certain given circumstances, so what the heck - I'll give it a shot! My 2 fallow DFs are fully fueled, ready for a crew, so I can quickly ramp up to 7 again very quickly if I want.

    Obviously, i took a hit on my drone production - gained just 8.5k today, but made a MEEELEEYYON STARBUX! :D

    this evening's numbers:
    Have Bof: 599
    Have Imho: 26
    Have Peb: 91

    8 Imho Mines = +304/hr = 7296/day
    8 Bofo Mines = +336/hr = 8064/day
    5 DFs = 240/hr = 5760/day
    Space Drones: 181,618 (+8,458/day)
    DC Drones: 50,000
    DC Cash: 8,000,000 (+1,000,000/day)
    DF Fuel: +28/hrs (+8/hrs over last refuel)
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Update: 1pm.
    Boy, howdy, this 5-DF configuration sure is profitable and makes for FAST refuels. Dumped another 1k of each gas in the hoppers and zeroed out my Peb, gaining a quick +7 Fuel Hours. This would be a great time to start slowly migrating my DFs to a Bof/Imho/X combo, where "X" is a secret, but is one of the 30 Autosell ores. I see the competition for 'roids is getting pretty fierce, so it might be worthwhile to keep what I need for X private, so I don't have to defend a third 'roid.

    I actually earned another 250k cash, but I'm just waiting for the trades to pile up to spend it on drones. Already up 8k - so, it'll be a good drone-gain day.


    the numbers:
    Have Bof: 9
    Have Imho: 48
    Have 30aso: 0

    10 Imho Mines = +380/hr = 9120/day
    6 Bofo Mines = +252/hr = 6048/day
    5 DFs = 240/hr = 5760/day
    Space Drones: 189,805
    DC Drones: 50,000
    DC Cash: 8,000,000
    DF Fuel: +35/hrs (+7/hrs over last refuel)
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Update: 3pm.
    Did a little refiguring and came up with a 6-DF balance that seems to work perfectly on paper. This arrangement feeds 7056 fuel per day from the first and second tier ores completely from DP Mines, and leaves all of my turns free for mining the third ore. As a bonus, the mines feed slightly *more* fuel than 6 DFs can burn in a day, so with this balance, I will gain half a fuel-hour per day with complete sustainability!
    Refuel at 1176/each ore per DF @ 7056 mark every 24 hrs = +1 Fuel Hour every 2 days.

    the numbers:
    Have Bof: 555
    Have Imho: 732
    Have Xore: 0
    8 Imho Mines = +304/hr = 7296/day
    7 Bofo Mines = +294/hr = 7056/day
    6 DFs = 288/hr = 6912/day
    Space Drones: 191,832
    DC Drones: 50,000
    DC Cash: 8,000,000
    DF Fuel: +33/hrs
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Update: 1pm.
    My 6-DF balance seems to work very well, piling up lots of cash for drone-buy day, so no bought drones today leaves my drone output at about 8.5k today. 900k bux means big drone buys tomorrow, though. I actually gained 3 fuel hours to boot!

    the numbers:
    Have Bof: 9
    Have Imho: 326
    Have Xore: 24
    8 Imho Mines = +304/hr = 7296/day
    7 Bofo Mines = +294/hr = 7056/day
    6 DFs = 288/hr = 6912/day
    Space Drones: 200,439 (+8,607/day)
    DC Drones: 50,000
    DC Cash: 8,900,000 (+900k/day)
    DF Fuel: +36/hrs (+3 hours over last refuel)
  • Posted By: datacore  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Does this continue to hold true if you're the one donating the ore each day?
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "datacore":  

    Does this continue to hold true if you're the one donating the ore each day?



    for the purposes of the experiment, no. I'd also have to allocate another 910+ of one or more of the ores for that purpose, assuming I was the only one making it and I was making it every day. Adjust your numbers accordingly.

    On a side note, I asked the Lums not to use my sectors as a safe place to jam all their facilities into, but apparently you didn't get that memo, so I scrapped all of my Bof mines and pulled *all* my drones off my bof asteroid in 819. It's all yours. I'll just have to come up with a different experiment now. /:
  • Posted By: Salen  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "datacore":  

    Does this continue to hold true if you're the one donating the ore each day?



    For donating i'm using the old standby of

    Bof 6
    Tant 5
    afa 6
    DF 4

    it gives me enough to fill all DF's, donate the ore quota by myself, and have some to sell. I only have to mine for like 600 mid ore and the rest I mine high ore to sell for more bux. buying 3000 drones a day, I pull in like 7k+ drones a day. not as impressive as Munk's but still works for me since I don't have the time.
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Update: High Noon.
    I been rousted from my Bof 'roid by overenthusiastic Greenies who don't quite yet understand the value of *not* doing a thing that they really shouldn't have done, assuming optimal intentions. Oh well, I suppose it's a good time to simulate a strategic situation where my top-producing ore was somehow made unavailable, say if I just wasn't able to secure a Bof 'roid at all or if it was taken over. Thus, I scrapped all my Bof mines and withdrew to a Lol 'roid. This decamping from Bof basically makes my DF's redundant, so I'll let them run until they're out of gas, then decamp everything to my Lol sector and try to make a go of just mining and selling Lolnium. I forsee running into a trades starvation situation, though - so maybe the experiment will be just how one deals with that effectively.

    Luckily it's Drone Buying Day and I gots a ton of cash. I'm hoping to be up by well over 30k drones for the day via buys and my still-chugging DFs. This is where those extra fuel hours really pays off. I already have a buttload of ore to sell off when tomorrow comes, so I don't see replenishing the cash I dump today will be a problem. (:

    The numbers:
    Have Imho: 8,588
    Have Lol: 13,611
    10 Imho Mines = +380/hr = 9120/day
    5 Lol Mines = +180/hr = 4320/day
    6 DFs = 288/hr = 6912/day
    Space Drones: 229,881 (+29,442/day)
    DC Drones: 50,000
    DC Cash: 6,600,000 (-2.3m/day)
    DF Fuel: +13/hrs (and burning up fast)
  • Posted By: datacore  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    ...But reduces the number of sectors you need to bury in drones to protect.
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "datacore":  

    ...But reduces the number of sectors you need to bury in drones to protect.



    ...except that there's a perfectly good empty sector just behind it, whose only access is *through* the Bof sector, and can effectively then be held with 1 drone. That little tunnel is a bit of very prime real estate, if properly developed - you could have 33 Bof mines and 33 DFs with just a single block sector, and fully optimize 4.7 of your team members drone output. (:
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Update 10PM.
    Gonna be up over +35k drones today, and down 2 million bux. Tomorrow will be all about selling ore, of which I have a lot now. Pared down my DFs to just two, condensing remaining fuel to 11 fuel hours, with a corresponding hit to tomorrow's drone production. No matter, as it'll be a cash rebuilding day, possibly two cash rebuilding days. I also scrapped all my Imho mines and moved just about everything to my Lol 'roid. When the two DFs run out of gas tomorrow, I'll have 18 Lol mines, generating far more ore than I can possibly sell. This means I can start stockpiling for the next set of DFs - I'm thinking of storing up 40k each of the three ores I'd need for DFs and then building 18 of 'em all in one shot to burn up the fuel in two days. That'd be 864 drones/hr or 20,736 drones/day for 46 solid fuel hours. :D

    The numbers:
    Have Imho: 11,096
    Have Lol: 19,975

    16 Lol Mines = +576/hr = 13,824/day
    2 DFs = 96/hr = 2,304/day
    Space Drones: 235,137
    DC Drones: 50,000
    DC Cash: 6,000,000
    DF Fuel: +11/hrs

    Also starting to track the results of my mining, to see if there's an appreciable difference in yield for hand-mining different ores.

    Mining Result:
    Mined for 270 turns.
    Mined 3270 Chunks of Lolnium Ore
    Mined 11 Space Lunchbox
    Mined 1 Trade-Recharge Pump

    Average LOL/TURN: 12.1
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Update: 10am.
    Oops, forgot to put a bunch of my DF workers back into Lol mines last night, so lost a bit of Lol production there and instead got a smattering of Tokens. Oh well, I set 'em straight this morning and got 'em back to work. My Dfs are all out of gas, so they're all Lol mines now, and I've condensed everything I have in space to just one sector.

    I had a bunch of turns to spend on a mining experiment and went for Bof. I was surprised by the results - I actually averaged *fewer* Bof per turn hand-mined than I did with Lol, 11.9 bof/turn vs 12.1 lol/turn. With Bof at 20% cheaper than Lol, I would have expected a margin of at least 20% the opposite direction, but this result suggests there's no difference in the base return rate for hand-mining various ores, and any differences in rates is just a matter of RNG. I'll be taking more sample runs with various ores, but the autosell difference between Bof and Lol is the largest of any of the ores, so that's really where I would have expected to see the most pronounced result difference.

    Also, I guess it's drone buying day again so instead of making cash, I'll be bleeding maybe another couple mill and spending it on drones again. I don't have the trades/hypos saved up or a mass of DFs churning out drones today, so don't expect another +35k drone gain.. may be able to squeeze out 15-20k, though. The ore just keeps piling up for later sale or use in DFs... :D

    The numbers:
    Have Bof: 8,176
    Have Imho: 11,152
    Have Lol: 26,993

    22 Lol Mines = +792/hr = 19,008/day
    Space Drones: 247,293
    DC Drones: 50,000
    DC Cash: 5,000,000

    Mining Result:
    Mined for 350 turns.
    Mined 3970 Chunks of Bofhozonite Ore
    Mined 15 Space Lunchbox

    Mined for 330 turns.
    Mined 4150 Chunks of Bofhozonite Ore
    Mined 13 Space Lunchbox
    Mined 1 Trade-Recharge Pump

    Total Turns: 680
    Total Mined: 8120

    Average Bof/Turn: 11.9
  • Posted By: Salen  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "munk":  

      Quote "datacore":  

    ...But reduces the number of sectors you need to bury in drones to protect.



    ...except that there's a perfectly good empty sector just behind it, whose only access is *through* the Bof sector, and can effectively then be held with 1 drone. That little tunnel is a bit of very prime real estate, if properly developed - you could have 33 Bof mines and 33 DFs with just a single block sector, and fully optimize 4.7 of your team members drone output. (:



    speaking of holding a sector with only 1 drone........is that new plan on drone laziness going into effect this cycle?
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "Salen":  

      Quote "munk":  

      Quote "datacore":  

    ...But reduces the number of sectors you need to bury in drones to protect.



    ...except that there's a perfectly good empty sector just behind it, whose only access is *through* the Bof sector, and can effectively then be held with 1 drone. That little tunnel is a bit of very prime real estate, if properly developed - you could have 33 Bof mines and 33 DFs with just a single block sector, and fully optimize 4.7 of your team members drone output. (:



    speaking of holding a sector with only 1 drone........is that new plan on drone laziness going into effect this cycle?



    Did anyone actually like that idea?
  • Posted By: Salen  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    crap can't remember, but ive been getting ready for it so I think you were thinking about it...or you were thinking about thinking about it....
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Update: 10am.
    Spent more cash on drones yesterday, but *now* it's a "sell ore" day, and boy do I have a bunch of Lol to sell. Broke past 300k drones and moved most of them to my DC, mainly because it's just easier to keep them there.

    Mostly I mined Bof yesterday, and got 5,580 turns worth of that in. The result shows basically no deviation from what I said yesterday. There's no difference in the mining return rate of the different asteroids for hand-mining. I get about 12 ore per turn mining any ore.

    Bofhozonite:
    ------------
    1,580 Turns Mined
    19,290 Bof Ore
    58 Lunchboxes
    2 trade pump
    ----
    12.2 ore/turn
    27.25 turns/lunchbox
    790 turns/pump

    The numbers:
    Have Bof: 19,346
    Have Imho: 11,152
    Have Lol: 37,976

    22 Lol Mines = +792/hr = 19,008/day
    Space Drones: 20,000
    DC Drones: 285,086 (+7,793/day)
    DC Cash: 5,300,000 (+300k/day)
  • Posted By: xKiv  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "munk":  

    There's no difference in the mining return rate of the different asteroids for hand-mining. I get about 12 ore per turn mining any ore.



    Sorry for misremembering!
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "xKiv":  

      Quote "munk":  

    There's no difference in the mining return rate of the different asteroids for hand-mining. I get about 12 ore per turn mining any ore.



    Sorry for misremembering!



    it's fun to spade it out :D
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Update: 10am.
    Really pumping the cash now, with my DPs mining way more Lol that I can sell, I expect that even after I enact my secret 2-day drone burst plan (how about 22 hot-running DFs loaded with 48 Fuel-Hours paired with burning cash buying drones with every trade I can muster for those two days?), I'll still have a buttload of extra Lol to sell and replenish my cash again. This arrangement kind of encourages a several days long cash/ore buildup followed by a short burst of drone-making and buying.

    Mined a bit over 1000 turns of Imho, and averaged 13.5 ore/turn, which I expect will sink a bit with a larger sample size. The only drones I got this day were from the Drone interest virus, which produced 1,200 drones worth of interest.


    Imhozium:
    ------------
    1,060 Turns Mined
    14,370 Imho Ore
    17 Lunchboxes
    2 trade pump
    ----
    13.5 ore/turn
    62.3 turns/lunchbox
    530 turns/pump

    The numbers:
    Have Bof: 19,346
    Have Imho: 27,522
    Have Lol: 42,730

    22 Lol Mines = +792/hr = 19,008/day
    Space Drones: 20,000
    DC Drones: 286,286 (+1,200/day)
    DC Cash: 7,300,000 (+2,000,000/day)
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Update: 10am.
    Another money grub day today, I'm thinking 2 more days of this ought to suffice, and I should end up with maybe 12 million bux in reserve, 40k+ of each ore I need, and a stockpile of hypos to max out my drone buys. The question I'm pondering now, is what performance hit will I take if I don't buy the 4500+ shields and batteries it would take to maximize the efficiency of 22 gassed up DFs. They only need to live for 48 hours, so if I don't fully shield them, I know they take an output hit - but I think it's only a few drones/hr. It might be worth it to take the performance hit and use the trades/cash I would have spent on shields/batteries to buy more drones.

    If I figure the performance hit at 4 drones/hr per DF, it comes out to about -4,200 drones over 48 hours. That is a considerable hit, but still less than the cost in trades/cash of the shields/batts. If the hit in performance is *more* than 4/hr/df, the equation starts to favor buying the shields/batts, but if the hit is more like 2 or 3/hr/df, the advantage is heavily favoring not buying the shields. I'll have to experiment with that...


    Imhozium:
    ------------
    1820 Turns Mined
    24190 Imho Ore
    ----
    13.3 ore/turn

    The numbers:
    Have Bof: 19,346
    Have Imho: 37,449
    Have Lol: 46,222

    22 Lol Mines = +792/hr = 19,008/day
    Space Drones: 20,000
    DC Drones: 287,486 (+1,200/day)
    DC Cash: 9,200,000 (+1,900,000/day)
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Update: High Noon

    Alrighty, I'm now starting the final phase of my space spading experiments - the "Drone Burst" phase. I've scrapped my Lol mines and built 22 DFs in the loneliest sector in the Universe, fully stocked with 120,000 fuel ore that will fuel them for about 33 hours. I've zeroed out my trades, so there's a reference point for how many drones I can buy in a day. Over these 33 hours, we'll see how many drones I can accumulate via DFs and buying drones with trades/cash.

    Some things I've figured out:
    1) As noted in the post above, there's a production hit for DFs if you don't fully shield/charge them from the default 10 to the full 125. I wanted to see exactly what that hit was, and I figured if it was below 4d/hr/df, Then there would be no incentive to fully shield/charge them, because those trades/cash would be better spent on just buying drones. Well, what I found out was that the performance hit, depending on the skill of your DP's is closer to 9-12d/hr/df. Thus, even though my DFs are only going to live for 33 hours, it *is* still better to fully shield/charge them. Over longer periods, that equation just weighs even more towards shielding too.

    2) Drones made in DFs are significantly more expensive than drones bought during low-price days in the Lodge in terms of resources. There are a lot of ascending and descending variables in that equation, including the value of trades saved, the value of all your DPs slowly gaining experience in the factories, the scaling of the cost of shields/batteries/kits amortized over time, and the value of getting a lot of drones fast vs getting cheaper drones over a longer time period. What DFs basically do for you is they allow you to exchange Cash for Trades, and can allow you to burst drone production in a way you just can't do with just trades and cash. Is the tradeoff worth it? Oh Jeebus only knows - the number of variables and how they scale over time makes for a complex bit of spading, but my feeling is that they are very much worth it at certain points in the game, and less so at other points, depending on the situation you face.

    3) DP Mines have significantly different production rates depending on what they're mining. Mining by hand does not. Bof is the highest output ore for DP Mines and is highly recommended as your first-slot ore for DFs. Imho is the highest-producing ore for the second slot DF ore. Peb is the highest for the third slot, but you'll pretty much *never* want to DP Mine your third-slot ore - you'll hand-mine it, so pick one of the most expensive ores because the extra you sell will earn you more cash per trade.

    4) I can see you saying, but what real difference is it if I use sub-par ores or earn a bit less cash per trade? Well, the answer is: almost nothing in the course of a day, but quite a lot over the 90 days an average cycle lasts. A couple examples:
    Say you use Nimby rather than Imho for your second-tier ore for fueling DFs.
    IMHO: 38/hr/mine
    NIMB: 37/hr/mine
    Only 1 ore/hr/mine - that's not much, right?
    Over time: 24 ore/day * 90 = 2160 ore

    A more extreme example might be why should I make it a priority to get 50k drones in my DC ASAP if I have the Drone Virus IOTM? Answer:
    Say it takes you 10 days from the beginning of the cycle to get together 50k drones for your DC. That means for 80 days or so, you earn 1200 drones/roll. How much is that over 80 days? That's 96,000 drones, made without spending a single Starbuck or trade, and no need for fuel or DPs.

    #########################

    Anyhow, the next 33 hours are drone burst, and after that, I'm packing up my space assets and exiting space. Probably, from that point on, I'll make my drones the slow way: Mine/trade/buy drones on cheap days. I figure we're within a few weeks before someone makes a move to take space, so it's about time I clear my assets from the board and stay out of the way.

    Drone Burst Starting assets:
    22 DFs = 1078/hr = 25,872/day
    Trades: 0
    Have Bof: 100
    Have Imho: 33
    Have Lol: 31,920
    Space Drones: 100,000
    DC Drones: 218,927
    DC Cash: 11,700,000
  • Posted By: Salen  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    with all your mining how many DP"s are at the +1xp stage? bet that helps with the DF's a lot!
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "Salen":  

    with all your mining how many DP"s are at the +1xp stage? bet that helps with the DF's a lot!



    just the one so far, at +4 (17,000xp). all the rest are between about 900-1500xp.
  • Posted By: Salen  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "munk":  

      Quote "Salen":  

    with all your mining how many DP"s are at the +1xp stage? bet that helps with the DF's a lot!



    just the one so far, at +4. all the rest are between about 900-1500xp.



    Holy crap +4! don't think ive ever seen one that high....I usually get them to +1 and that's it LOL!
  • Posted By: xKiv  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "Salen":  

    with all your mining how many DP"s are at the +1xp stage? bet that helps with the DF's a lot!



    It doesn't. All that XP should be on the One Chosen token-producing mining-assisting pet. Even just 9k xp is at least 24*9000/300=24*30=720 token/day, which is *hundreds* of drones. A +4 in a factory is +96 drones/day.
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Update: High Noon

    8 Hours of fuel left in my DF's in Drone Burst Mode and I am up about 45k drones, and down 2.3mill Cash for the day. 45k drones in 24 hours. That's a heck of a burst! :D

    Assets:
    22 DFs = 1078/hr = 25,872/day +8hrs
    Have Lol: 47,050
    Space Drones: 100,000
    DC Drones: 264,125 (+45,198/day)
    DC Cash: 9,400,000 (-2,300,000/day)
  • Posted By: TFwO  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    "It's high noon" McCree
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Update: High Noon

    All DF's outta gas and scrapped, and my assets pulled from space in deference to our new Queen Kat, who has made her move on the universe. A two-day drone gain of almost 75,000 drones. Very happy with that result :D

    Assets:
    Have Lol: 57,277
    Space Drones: 1
    DC Drones: 393,287 (+29,162/day)
    DC Cash: 7,300,000 (-2,100,000/day)
    Tokens: 0

    At this point, with all my DP's in the cage, it occurs to me that I can better optimize them, since I won't be sending them out in factories anymore. To that end, I've swapped my normal main DP with a fresher one from the mines. I'll be training them all up to 25 HP on the theory that it will result in more tokens than if I continued to train the one pet with no further HP gain. I will track at what EXP point that 25th HP comes at, and also note the rate at which I start generating tokens.
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Update: 4pm

    Been doing not much except mining, trading off what I mine and buying drones on alternate days, and spending some of my "trading day" trades spending down tokens that my DP's craft on drones. I've found that with judicious selling, I can earn earn just enough more on trading than I spend on drones the next day, so my on-hand cash tends to fluctuate each day in the range of about 1million SB to about 5 or 6 mill, and that gives me just enough to balance what "trading trades" I spend on tokens. I gave up on the idea of spending tokens on hypos. That seems best used as a way to really beef up your trading muscle in the early game.

    It's been 30 days since my last report, so I can average out my drone gains over those 30 days to come up with an average daily number.

    Assets:
    LOL: 98,011 (+40,734)
    DC Drones: 812,796 (+419,509 = +13,983/day avg.)
    Cash: 2,500,000 (fluctuates wildly on a daily basis)
    Tokens: 4,617

    Still training my DPs to 25HP, most of them are at 22 or 23, and it's a bit of a slog getting them up. I swap them out daily, always grabbing the least experienced one for my daily mining trip, on the theory that it's better to get the lower-level ones up to 22 or so fast rather than incrementally improving an already buffed one. They make a lotta tokens though, so now that I'm logging my numbers again, I should be able to whip up a report of how many they usually make a day.
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Update 4pm, 2 days later

    welp, missed my hour report for yesterday, so my Token count needs to be divided in half to get the daily gain:

    Tokens: 7394 - 4617 = 2777 or 1388/day.
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Nobody seemed interested in discussing drone token counts, which is pretty much what I'm limited to given my unwillingness to deploy facilities in the current military environment, so I'll posit a theoretical that I wish I could test, but sadly can't:

    How many DP's does it take to staff enough mining facilities to make it optimal to have all your pets staffing mining facilities mining random ore just to make the ore quota every day plus autosell the excess for cash to buy drones? IE: only using your trades to buy drones, so you have to have enough excess ore to autosell for enough cash to be able to use all of your trades every day on drones.

    I have 89 DPs, all of them at either 23 or 24 HP. I'll have to dig up my data from when I was running mining facilities, but those numbers would undershoot because they are for 10 HP pets. It would at least give me an idea, though. I'm currently raising about 80k drones every 5 days with a suboptimal daily grind of mining/selling ore and buying drones while stretching my cash by using the tokens generated by my DPs on non-cheap drone days.

    The surplus item generated by this strategy is ore. I got tons and tons of excess LOL from mining, which I autosell every week. 10k Lol nets me 300ksb, so doing the math, by not burning the trades to sell that ore at a better profit, I gain 2400 drones worth of cash and trades to buy them with.

    Thus, the question I'm curious about is: would mining plus 89 DPs worth of mining facilities on high-autosell asteroids net me enough cash from autoselling ore to afford to use all of my trades everyday to buy drones? That might net as much as 160K drones every 5 days... hmmnnn...
  • Posted By: xKiv  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    I think you are underestimating the limiting factor of trades/day.

    Megasimplification: assume 90 DPs, all 25 HP and 3k xp, in mines that produce , umm, 39/hour? = 936/day ore that then sells at max (188/unit) for a total of 5.27904 M bux/day.
    But this is 28k ore. You can't sell 28k ore and buy 28k drones wth less than 56k trades. You don't have 56k trades. Don't tell me you somehow have 56k trades. Mabe 56kbaud trade-in modem? (I don't want that modem)

    Let's say you have 20k trades. If 1 ore sells for 188 bux and 1 drone buys for 125 bux, you spend 1+(125/188) trades on a single drone, which gives us 12k drones/day, and leaves almost 20k ore (plus anything mined by hand) to make the donation.
    With 30k trades/day, you would buy 18k drones/day, and have 16k+handmining ore for daily donation (if it's not enough for making quota daily ... well, you can still 100% sell ore on some days and buy drones on other days?).

    There's a little problem with that, of course - finding enough high-price ore asteroids to place 30 mines for everyone who wants to do this. And trading posts for consistent maximal pricetags.
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    autoselling doesn't take trades (:

      Quote "xKiv":  

    I think you are underestimating the limiting factor of trades/day.

    Megasimplification: assume 90 DPs, all 25 HP and 3k xp, in mines that produce , umm, 39/hour? = 936/day ore that then sells at max (188/unit) for a total of 5.27904 M bux/day.
    But this is 28k ore. You can't sell 28k ore and buy 28k drones wth less than 56k trades. You don't have 56k trades. Don't tell me you somehow have 56k trades. Mabe 56kbaud trade-in modem? (I don't want that modem)

    Let's say you have 20k trades. If 1 ore sells for 188 bux and 1 drone buys for 125 bux, you spend 1+(125/188) trades on a single drone, which gives us 12k drones/day, and leaves almost 20k ore (plus anything mined by hand) to make the donation.
    With 30k trades/day, you would buy 18k drones/day, and have 16k+handmining ore for daily donation (if it's not enough for making quota daily ... well, you can still 100% sell ore on some days and buy drones on other days?).

    There's a little problem with that, of course - finding enough high-price ore asteroids to place 30 mines for everyone who wants to do this. And trading posts for consistent maximal pricetags.

  • Posted By: xKiv  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    So autoselling gets you 30 bux/ore.
    Which would be 842k bux/day, good for at most 7k drones.
    Obviously, you want to mix.
    Assume free cheap drone days, 28k ore/day.
    With T trades ... sell X ore, autosell rest, buy (T-X) drones so that X*188+(28080-X)*30=(T-X)*125.
    X*(188-30+125)=T*125-28080*30
    X*283=T*125-842400
    X=T*125/283-2976.67...

    when T=20k: X=5857, get 14142 drones/day
    when T=30k: X=10274, get 19725 drones/day

    still ways off your target

    And if you need to spend D ore/day on donations (if 28k-D>X, i.e. you are only donating what would be autosold) ...
    X=T*125/283-(28080-D)*30/283
    drones bought = T-X=T*158/283+2976.67-D*30/283
    ... reduce drones obtained by about D/10 drones/day
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    well, I don't actually know how many trades I get per day - I only know how many drones I can muster in 5 days with a semi-balanced mix of mining and trading some ore at ports (using as few trades as possible to just net enough cash to buy the drones). That's roughly 80K, which seems good when compared with my results from my tests with facilities.

    I suppose the testable thing would be for me to keep track of how many trades I spend selling ore at ports for a 5 day period. That would then solve the vector of how many *more* drones I could buy in that period, if I could fund the buys.

    Then the vectors to solve for would be how much ore would need to be autosold rather than port-sold to fund those buys, and how many DPs would it take to accomplish. (:
  • Posted By: grimdel  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Speaking of IOTMs for the Lazy - new shiny for September?
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "grimdel":  

    Speaking of IOTMs for the Lazy - new shiny for September?



    heh, hardly anybody's wanted the last 2, so I was curious to see if anyone would notice if I didn't put one out this month.. :D

    Ahh, well - all I've got lined up right now is a Big Black Cock. You want that?
  • Posted By: xKiv  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Will it usher in the eternal sepvptember?
  • Posted By: grimdel  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    weird - figured the widget combiner would have been a hit as it doubles your free trade hypo gains.

    Do I want Munk's BBC? seeing how this game is designed to give players the shaft, sure :)
  • Posted By: Rakkasan  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    I love the widgets, but I couldn't really decide if there was any purpose for me to get the boots over the current trade suit. And been too lazy to really want to grab the boots and spade around with them... particularly since I have a freaking closet of spare shoes and boots and such as it is already. *shrugs*


    However... if there's BBC to be had, I assure you I'll be first in line to check that puppy out. Yum.
  • Posted By: Langers  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    (Langers feeds munk's big black cock a big blue pill and releases it in a wolf den)
  • Posted By: grimdel  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "Rakkasan":  

    I love the widgets, but I couldn't really decide if there was any purpose for me to get the boots over the current trade suit.



    the trade suit maxes out at 180 sb/ore. The sexy trade suit w/ clown shoes maxes out at 188 sb/ore. I think I read that the next cycle - they'll be equivalent, but for now, you could get an extra 5% more...