Space Lunchboxes and an aversion to needles Space Lunchboxes now have a 50% chance to drop from using the "mine 10" option on Asteroids, and of course, you only have a chance if you actually have ten turns to spend. What are Space Lunchboxes? Go find out!
You have also developed a slight aversion to having deep, pustulent track marks all over your body, so you have henceforth sworn to use no more than 500 Trade Recharge Hypos per day, to give your delicate veins time to heal.
The "Mine 10" option, the increased max trades... Several of the recent changes are making game tasks easier. Is that really a good thing? Certainly, I am glad to click less, but hard work and significant time investments should be rewarded, right? Consider the Flambe quest. If someone invests the time to learn the recipes and seek out the ingredients for the required items, surely that is more deserving of a reward than just happening to get a few lunchboxes full of the required items when you aren't even trying to complete the Flambe quest in the first place.
1) The whole game as you are trying to make it is mine, trade, maybe tend some facilities, and buy drones. The lunchbox even removes the strategy of holding strategic places in space where you get ingredients or foods, because it is basically the best food in the game and it is very easy to get.
2) There are so many resources that there is plent of asteroids and stuff for everyone. If the game is just mine/buysell, then it is going to be 3 months of boredom followed by some potential action at some point. Basically the people with the most players who mine/buysell win, no strategy really required. If an asteroid gets captured, just get a different one, whatevs.
3) I can get more hypos from IOTM and daily quests than I can now use in a single day... let alone if I use trade pumps or a 32 sends me some or I trade some battle tokens in.
At the end of the day, it seems like you are trying to paint everyone into the same corner of how to play the end game. That is a bit lame. I could probably script an entire day at this point since it is so simple and pretend like I am KOLmafia'ing.
If you want to make that the game but keep it interesting, there has to be a reason to battle more often. Maybe there is only 1-2 asteroids of each type, and it is a struggle to hold them. Or maybe something else. But right now, the game says to just build and then one day attempt domination.
I would suggest that exactly the opposite will happen. Instead of botting on safe planets, the action is now in space. I am unsure of how 10 minutes in space is less interesting than two hours botting on a planet. (:
and yet everyone complains when I suggest things like asteroid depletion that would do exactly that. :D
I do have a detailed plan of which these changes are a part, and I expect many to hate on every single change as its made, but I hope you will trust that the end result will be something I believe you guys will like. More than that, I hope you'll trust that the end result is something that will be better at keeping new people playing, which they are *not* usually doing now. stay tuned...
This idea does play into the "whole-game" picture. As asteroids deplete, so do the "freebies". NPC stores will still provide some of the difficult ingredients for high-end recipes; I don't think their value will be diminished in the blockade game. Foil recipes are still high on the trade/turn yield list; there may be a benefit to Lunchbox plus "X" recipes. I will spend some serious turns figuring it out.
Here's the balance I'm trying to strike, and now that there are levers I can push and pull to increase or decrease rates of use on all the things, this is now possible:
Vectors for maximal turns/trades (and to a lesser extent, stats)
1) full/drunk (regulated to X/day on rolling schedule - balanced use gives general benefits, so requires over-time maintenance for maximal yield)
2) trade hypos (now regulated to X/day, can recharge roughly half your max trades)
3) drugs (unregulated except those that give drunk/fullness. usually weak and affect mainly stats rather than turns/trades)
Now, if we want to fiddle with the values of X on the hypos to achieve a nice balance, we can do that with relevant input from the users. This input is welcome.
Values for X on the full/drunk scale were addressed with food and constitution boost changes, and I feel comfortable with them now. Adding daily quest-relevant food to asteroid drops further disincentivizes mob farming because now the best food comes from mining rather than mob farming, and you get enough to satisfy your quests and feed yourself. Daily quests now pay out craft beers instead of Trade Hypos, so using lunchbox food to satisfy quests helps bring you the high-quality booze you want. Now, the 50% lunchbox rate might be high, and we can fiddle with that rate too (input welcome), but initially I figured on a lunchbox costing 20 turns on average. the food inside probably will not give you back those full 20 turns, but is likely the best food you can get so easily, and it is pretty good trades food too. Additionally, putting a lower limit on full/drunk now gives us the opportunity to make even better food combos for crafters - perhaps a use for all those cardboard shreds out there.. (:
33s mining/trading/factory-in'/droning with their needs being met by activities in space in a way that allows significant, but not unlimited min/maxing. The vectors for optimal play should all be space-based activities, as space is delightfully dangerous and full of sharks. Dailies should be a nice distraction and a vector for optimal play, but shouldn't be the main vector, nor should any planet-based activity be for a 33.
So, spend most the trades buying cigs that the food gives you, got it. Let alone getting constitution when you don't farm your stats at all.
Okay, mob farming not being optimal was successfully killed with the item drops and the cash drops. The other stuff doesn't affect that mob farming is not optimal from a drone creation perspective.
-A 32 can't funnel trades to the 33's anymore, since the hypos are capped. This also has effects on the end game when you are struggling at the end, as last minute support from random people is also capped.
-Factories are not the main source of drone creation anymore, so capturing enemy holdings doesn't have as much affect. Also, the current factory depletion rate when captured is so slow that it took 1-1/2 months (!) for the ES factories we had left under our control to finally implode the other day. That is a lot of time to plan out a dimit, and far more time than you need to plan out a counter attack.
-There are too many asteroids and trade ports to effectively prevent other teams from mining or trading by blockading, which you have made the main point of drone creation. And even if you attempted or managed to do this, your main source of drone creation (buying) is now much harder to do because you have raised your own quota so much. You guys mention asteroid depletion or other things in the works, but we can only play this cycle as it is now, and the asteroids are already there. I still think having less fixed asteroids with no facility cap is a better option. If there was only 1 of each type, it would be a societal struggle to get them under control.
-As it sits right now, food is given by mining, why have the store out there? You can combine batteries to make M now, so you don't even need those. And the main rocket boots use apples you can buy safely on earth. Not much point to holding such a location.
-Stats are so useless you have almost no reason to raise them. They don't make much of anything in the game better, why even have stats in the first place? Just for PvP?
-Space is not unsafe as you say it is. Maybe you need to make random accidents happen in space, or when mining or something. A chunk of debris breaches your space suit occasionally. You get hit by a passing comet and moved to another sector in space, sucked into a black hole, etc. I have not once this cycle been PvP'd while mining, or tending facilities, or laying drones, or doing anything really but agreeing to meet someone somewhere.
-If space is now the 33 game, it should take turns again. You should not pander about space aimlessly doing as you please.
I also don't see any of these latest changes helping with new player retention. They never even make it that far through the quests to get there.
Mining gives stats now, including constitution. Probably not nearly enough to significantly counteract the cigs, though.
But the best ways to lose health for eating purposes are still:
- get naked and advance at random mob until you are beaten up
- blast off and unseal your spacesuit (I think this removes some health? but also some bux?)
As I said, this can be mitigated by altering the value of the limit. Need useful input, not outright dismissal.
Again, timing vectors that can be altered. this at least is useful input. (:
a valid idea, but I suggest that thinking in terms of "this cycle" is not going to give you valid results. I'm planning for next cycle and perhaps 50 or more new players who will not be stopped at degree 1 or 8 by the new (to be announced) quest line. If your complaint is that there are not enough people around to fully utilize the mechanics, then rest assured the plan is to have more people - players who will not be presented with difficult, grindy quests and the main option of bot-farming as the most optimal path to victory.
because stores are a vector. Again, fine-tuning what they offer and how is just a balance issue, and since you're not privy to the content mod forum, you aren't aware of what's coming for NPC stores. (:
And with insane drop rates and bot farming out of the picture for 33's, what *should* stats be good for other than PvP/PsP? Also, mining/trading give you the same stats as combat now, and faster. You'll still have all the opportunity to gain stats from reset 0 as you ever did, just now you won't do it mob farming, you'll do it with mining.
Again, thinking just in terms of this cycle is not particularly constructive. That's not what I'm focused on. I'm focused on Cycle 20 and the new questlines that will be instrumental in getting new players to stay. None of these changes impact Cycle 19 in any appreciable way because everyone has already achieved a sort of 4-way equilibrium of force and alliances. Strategy for Cycle 19 won't hinge on mechanics because there is no mechanic possible that can break the current stalemate of forces and loose alliances as they stand now - it'll hinge on social and political factors, back-room cigar-smoke deals under the table. This is a social team-based game, and meetings and agreements are every bit a part of the mechanic as turns and trades.
Also, since trades were mentioned, a possible solution to buying single cigs in the store would be to make "packs" (already exist, I think) and "cartons" of cigs show up in the stores. These aren't game-breaky problems, and can be creatively fine-tuned.
yeah and as some of the players can attest.....ive pounced on a lot of players in space trying to buy and sell at the most inappropriate times. I can't go under the drone radar, but i'm still trying to make space dangerous :)
as for stats, I still think they should help with drop rates, even though those rates have been decreased. The idea of working on stat quests is always cool, but if they taught you how to get the more hard to find items then they would be even more helpful.
As for food dropping by mining, I too think that the lunch boxes drop a lot more than they should, but again that's a variable that can be refined later as we test it out and such
Not a programmer as such, so most of what I suggest should be taken with a grain of salt, but I think that maybe if asteroids roamed through space, that would really shake things up. You couldn't always depend on a safe harbor for asteroid mining. That would really make space dangerous. You'd have to keep your factories fueled up when you could or head out in a pack to defend your miners.
Then again, that would make drone factories maybe too dangerous? So, maybe you have asteroids with no resource for drone facs and roaming asteroids for resource exploitation that you can't always count on to be in a safe harbor. Limit mining facs by society rather than a all or none hard limit so everyone has a chance to plant their flag... and increase danger.
I've never done the factory thing, but do mining facs deteriorate in some way? I know drone facs need resources that deplete when making drones? Make the mining fac deterioration make it so that it's about an 80% chance that the fac will 'run out' before it could get into a safe zone?
If hypos are meant to offer about half your max trades that should be more like 250 than 100. A hypo averages about 15 trades I think (haven't really done the math, just sorta looked at the yields I get) which means 100 would average 1500, that's less than half of the base max trades and most players are going to have significantly more than base max after playing for a while.
I think so. It still makes it impossible for lower levels to effectively shuttle trades to 33's, but that's not really a bad thing, it means they'll just have to focus more on PVP and access to NPC stores.
well, I dunno. Note that dailies don't drop hypos anymore (craft beers now with your tokens). You may find that it might be tough to find enough to eat 300 a day even with a few dimiters pumping trades for ya, once the current glut of saved-up ones runs low.
true, three trade pumps gives a bit less than 300, and the pyramid doesn't make up the difference so there is still room for subsidy by lower levels. The flambe quest still claim to pay in hypos in the fulfillment description btw, not sure about yipikaitain. Gives beer, but says it is giving hypos.
hmmm, making the asteroids move every once in awhile would actually shake up the drone war a bit. Empires would basically become more like hunter/gatherers moving where the action is. Drone facs could still be set up anywhere, but your mining facs wouldn't move with the asteroid.....to be fair to the people setting up factories it may have to be like once a month, maybe? any other thoughts?
I think that that the appeal of Asteroid Depletion is being seen.
Salen, I think the best method would be to apply Asteroid Depletion to remove resources from sectors. A random Asteroid Capacity would be assigned upon Asteroid Generation. This would cause depletion to be random, unless someone really gets down to the math. The Asteroids would then regenerate in random sectors with new random Mining Caps.
xKiv & BabylonHoruv, perhaps a mini-roll to check Asteroid Depletions and assign Regen. I'm not sure of the Server strain or Player inconvenience of such a min-roll, but Munk would be able to answer to this plan's feasibility.
Now with Asteroids giving valuable Foodstuffs, the Depletion scenario seems a logical course. This would still allow NPC Store blockades, but force Societal scrambles to secure Asteroids.
Just some random thoughts... :D
There is a commented out section of the nightly cron scripts that does in fact completely regenerate all the ports each day and moves them around. I forget why it was commented out, though. might have been player dissatisfaction. :D
Are you guys talking about NPC stores or trading ports ? Trading ports did used to move around, along with asteroids (perhaps they stopped moving when facilities were added ?). NPC stores I believe have always been fixed...