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When Facilities Collide...

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  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    When Facilities Collide...
    Ok, maybe it's time to make a stab at shaking up facilities warfare again. How about we up the drama:

    1) Facility collusion check every 12 hours.
    2) Facility collusion check no longer >33 facilities. Instead, it simply checks for hostile drones in the sector. (IE: the current "hostility" readout would then be meaningful, as it now signals that the facility is "under attack").

    Facility collusion check would then be:
    each 12 hours:
    1) check if facility sector is under hostile control.
    2) if it *is*, drones attack factories; 5 facilities are randomly chosen, each gets 20% chance for destruction.

    This would then eliminate the tactic of starting "collider facilities" with a sacrificial DP to overload the sector. Simply controlling it with your drones would trigger the attacks. The attacks would happen at intervals no longer particularly advantageous to certain time zones.

    This would also eliminate the disincentive to overload sectors with facilities, so the limit would likely have to be then hard-set at 33.

    whatchoo think?
  • Posted By: xKiv  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "munk":  

    5 facilities are randomly chosen,



    Any 5, or just up to 5 non-aligned?

    Also hmm, this would limit people hopping between societies, leaving facilities on sectors under multiple flags.
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "xKiv":  

    Any 5, or just up to 5 non-aligned?



    non-aligned. drones won't attack friendly facilities. It'd be a simplified "the longer you control the sector militarily, the more slots open up for your facilities as the enemy ones slowly succumb to relentless attacks" sort of deal.
  • Posted By: crashnburn11  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Well, if you at a hard cap and I'm a dick, i fill all your asteroids to the max off the bat to prevent you from using them fully, and just camp out in your society.

    I think just remove the cap, and reduce the number of asteroids to make them quite valuable. If i capture an asteroids with 60 facilities it just makes it more i can Destroy.
  • Posted By: Rickton  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    I don't like the idea of drones being able to insta-kill facilities. I'd be OK with drones attacking facilities to whittle down shields and eventually destroy facilities, though.
    Also don't like the hard caps. I think crash and xKiv provided good arguments agains that, plus I think collision from too many facilities is more interesting.
    In favor of increased times of collision check, though.

    This is kind of unrelated, but it'd be kind of fun if the drones being produced by still-stocked factories were released to attack the occupier drones to make it easier to re-take the sector but that's probably more trouble than it's worth to code.
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "crashnburn11":  

    Well, if you at a hard cap and I'm a dick, i fill all your asteroids to the max off the bat to prevent you from using them fully, and just camp out in your society.

    I think just remove the cap, and reduce the number of asteroids to make them quite valuable. If i capture an asteroids with 60 facilities it just makes it more i can Destroy.



    I can also just leave in the current mechanic that collides facilities >33. it runs at roll, and the new mechanic can run at say 3am/3pm. that would keep things as are, except to add another attack mechanic that doesn't require you to sacrifice DPs (but you still could, under the same circumstances that exist now, except your own collider facilities would be the ones at most risk if you couldn't hold the sector.)
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "Rickton":  

    I don't like the idea of drones being able to insta-kill facilities. I'd be OK with drones attacking facilities to whittle down shields and eventually destroy facilities, though.



    what's the max full shield charge on a loaded facility in units? could have some variation of X drones versus Y shields to wear down the shields (but not destroy drones) until Y < 1 = BOOM!

    realistically though, it won't much matter whether it's a dice roll or shield weardown. your window for re-taking the sector would be a few days at best.
  • Posted By: Rickton  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "munk":  

      Quote "Rickton":  

    I don't like the idea of drones being able to insta-kill facilities. I'd be OK with drones attacking facilities to whittle down shields and eventually destroy facilities, though.



    what's the max full shield charge on a loaded facility in units? could have some variation of X drones versus Y shields to wear down the shields (but not destroy drones) until Y < 1 = BOOM!

    realistically though, it won't much matter whether it's a dice roll or shield weardown. your window for re-taking the sector would be a few days at best.


    Max shields are 125.

    I think what bothers me about the idea is that, compared to facility collision, there's no cost to the attacker, but a pretty big cost to the victim. With facility collision, the attacker has to give up a pet + the cost of a facility, which is still going to be way less than 3 pets + a fully-shielded facility that the defender loses, but there's at least some cost. The drones blowing up facilities basically means the defender loses facilities and the attacker doesn't have to use any resources (except the drones to take the sector, I guess).
    Having drones slowly kill facilities instead of insta-kill doesn't have any cost either, but it's an extension of mechanics that are already in the game (facilities run out of power and die if you don't put batteries in them) that I think, and I think I've heard others say, takes too long.
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "Rickton":  

    Max shields are 125.



    Perhaps instead of a 20% dice roll, it could be something like -1 shield every 12 hrs * (ceil(enemy_drones/10000). Note by that rate, everything hostile would be cleansed in a sector guarded by 100k enemy drones within 5 days. It would then be advantageous for the enemy to dump as many drones as possible in the sector to cleanse it faster - which would make it significantly less likely to be retaken. If you want to more heavily incentivize your enemy into blocking your rescue, I can think of no better carrot to dangle. (:
  • Posted By: grimdel  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    I was wondering what are the mechanics on doppelpet deaths - Databuddy and forums don't seem to have any info on them. Do you get them back on a dimit? Can you find free'd doppelpets in space? Is there a time duration before they become available in Laxloo?
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "grimdel":  

    I was wondering what are the mechanics on doppelpet deaths - Databuddy and forums don't seem to have any info on them. Do you get them back on a dimit? Can you find free'd doppelpets in space? Is there a time duration before they become available in Laxloo?



    been awhile since I checked, so someone might correct me, but I think it's: yes, (question not specific enough to answer), and no.
  • Posted By: xKiv  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    If I understand that question, the answer is no:
    1) there are no freed doppelpets in space
    2) the game doesn't keep track of which pets you had before a dimit
    3) you can find "free" pets while adventuring on planets - the selection is random out of all currently available pets (that you don't have yet). Not what the chance is, or if it dependes on number of pets available/pets you already have/cage size/...

    And, it bears repeating: no matter what the stripper says, there are NO freed doppelpets in the champaigne room^W^W^Wspace.
  • Posted By: crashnburn11  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    They don't come back, ever.
  • Posted By: grimdel  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "munk":  

      Quote "grimdel":  

    I was wondering what are the mechanics on doppelpet deaths - Databuddy and forums don't seem to have any info on them. Do you get them back on a dimit? Can you find free'd doppelpets in space? Is there a time duration before they become available in Laxloo?



    been awhile since I checked, so someone might correct me, but I think it's: yes, (question not specific enough to answer), and no.



    Oh - all of my questions referred to possible ways to re-obtain a dead doppelpet - dimiting resetting deaths, finding someone elses freed doppelpet thats a clone of the one that died on you, duration before a dead doppelpet is regrown in a vat and available again, etc...

    But if Crash is correct -all the answers are no - no more cake for you!

    And I could have sworn I've run into freed doppelpets in space before - has that mechanic changed?
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "grimdel":  

    But if Crash is correct -all the answers are no - no more cake for you!



    that is probably correct

      Quote "grimdel":  

    And I could have sworn I've run into freed doppelpets in space before - has that mechanic changed?



    This will only happen if there are DPs available to you that you don't already have. If you make an effort to buy them all as they are introduced, then the free ones from space probably won't happen to you.
  • Posted By: xKiv  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    BTW, what are the reasons to even have a (hard) facility limit in the first place? Just so that players can't huddle all their facilities on 3 well-guarded sectors and be done with all mining and droning?

    Because these things are not immediately obvious, and the exact cutoff points can be arbitrary, and I don't even like hard switches between markedly different behaviours unless there's a "narrative" in-game explanation.
    (myself, I am thinking more about a production penalty that increases with number of facilities in sector, so that the effect isn't sudden and abrupt, and the pressure is always there)
  • Posted By: Salen  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "xKiv":  

    BTW, what are the reasons to even have a (hard) facility limit in the first place? Just so that players can't huddle all their facilities on 3 well-guarded sectors and be done with all mining and droning?

    Because these things are not immediately obvious, and the exact cutoff points can be arbitrary, and I don't even like hard switches between markedly different behaviours unless there's a "narrative" in-game explanation.
    (myself, I am thinking more about a production penalty that increases with number of facilities in sector, so that the effect isn't sudden and abrupt, and the pressure is always there)



    heh, production going down because there are too many dopplepets in one sector gabbing away with each other ("yeah he fed me, but what a dick...how's your master?" "Oh she can be a real bitch but she lets us bathe at least") this made me laugh way to hard.

    but seriously I like this idea, ore going from 36/turn to 30 just cause someone went over the limit, and dropping even more with more facs would almost hurt more than taking over the asteroid, and you wouldn't even notice if you weren't paying attention.
  • Posted By: Rickton  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "xKiv":  

    (myself, I am thinking more about a production penalty that increases with number of facilities in sector, so that the effect isn't sudden and abrupt, and the pressure is always there)


    I like this! Kind of serves the same function as the asteroid depletion, but less drastically. I know 33 is a special number in SSW, but I'd put the number lower, to incentivize societies to spread to other asteroids rather than turtle.
  • Posted By: grimdel  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    I could have sworn there used to be a mechanic where there was a chain-reaction -> facilities would start bumping into each other. Overall, everyone takes damage till the weakest ones die off... It would force everyone to keep their shields up and fully maintained.... Did that change?