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Your Recommended Daily Allowances

Secret Society Wars  »  SSW Discussion

  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Your Recommended Daily Allowances
    You'll note from previous announcements that there's kind of a big shake-up happening with food and turns regeneration. In part, this is meant to address the issue of bot-farming, such that we do things to dis-incentivize bot farming while still allotting sufficient turns for the nubs and dimiters to do their questing.

    The reasoning has to do with growth - basically, the server can handle a dozen people bot-farming, but 30 or 50 people doing it would quickly use up the capacity of our resources. There is also the plain fact that if it is optimal to run a bot farming mobs, then something is wrong with the incentives at given levels, and it's not particularly fun to auto-run turns anyway.

    Thus as you level to 33, as indicated before, things will be weighted so that you shift to more trading, and you have reason to save your turns for daily quest objectives and mining rather than having so many that cash farming makes sense.

    Additionally, as noted in previous posts, more stats are available on food/drinks, and we'll be rejiggering the food/drinks to take advantage of that, such that you will be able to utilize foods in intelligent ways to speed your through your quest targets.

    These changes will certainly have profound effects throughout the system, and I expect incidental benefits such as a certain slowdown of people statting up so quickly and becoming unbeatable in PvP, and I expect certain strategies in dimitting to appear. For instance, Dimitting will become much more important to PvPers and drone warriors alike, with PvP-ers choosing Constitutionalist or Tough Guy dimit paths and drone warriors choosing the Capitalist path. That's just theory, though - we'll see how it works out. The slowdown of mob farming is certainly going to mean that your combat experience and constitution is going to grow much slower, while your confidence, trade experience and Chi will grow faster, possibly shaking up PsP as well.

    Anyway, this thread is for discussing the fine-tuning of these changes to produce the desired effect. (:
  • Posted By: xKiv  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Yes, I can see how combat xp and doppelpet xp are the only remaining heavy incentives to farm mobs. AFAIK it's the ony way to get combat xp, and still the fastest way to get doppelpet xp?
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    I'm doing a first pass at the food now. I'm noting that while many complex recipes have had turns reduced after re-jiggering the base food items, many others have actually had their turns increased. One that strikes me as being very good right at the moment is the Galactiyaki Burger, which is only crafted. Yay!

    There will be more passes, mainly to account for recipes that have non-food ingredients (tin foil, cocktail swords, distilling kits, can of paste, etc..) and to beef them up with extra stats that aren't accounted for right now because those items aren't food. I'm liking how this is shaking up so far. many more recipes and crafted foods become relevant.
  • Posted By: Salen  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    I for one have not used scripts this time around, more from actually enjoying what has been absent for so long and less because I'm on something that doesnt run them. So what has that meant? It means that I only get pills if I want to sit here, and I have to balance my smoking and drinking effectively. Personally I think it makes this game more enjoyable, not running 300 turns to get pills and having a wicked high constitution, or auto mining for 500 turns while I cook dinner. It just killed some parts of the game for me. so in seeing this i'm kind of giddy. having food to boost more stats and saving turns for minor food farming instead is awesome Thank you!!!
  • Posted By: sadieseaside  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    I have never used scripts but I can see the need for the new bits. Let the adventure begin.
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Food and drinks have been gone over a few times now, and I think we're about where we want to be, with a bit of fine tuning. Drinks, for the most part, had turns increased. I think you'll be surprised how many viable foods/drinks there are now, and hopefully this change will increase interest in actually making things to eat and drink.
  • Posted By: Kimo  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    I know there is 1 real dumb ass in every group and I will raise my hand. I think I am doing it all wrong. I have had no problem with trade accumulation at 33 but I am starving for turns everyday. I can never have enough even if I max out my power ups with space monkeys. I like to mine and never have enough turns to mine up to my trade max. Yes I am using two ore tools and my miner helmet. Like I said I must be doing it wrong. I am pretty sure I need 500 to 600 turns each day and I am never getting that amount.

    Signed
    Willing to ho for turns
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "Kimo":  

    I know there is 1 real dumb ass in every group and I will raise my hand. I think I am doing it all wrong. I have had no problem with trade accumulation at 33 but I am starving for turns everyday. I can never have enough even if I max out my power ups with space monkeys. I like to mine and never have enough turns to mine up to my trade max. Yes I am using two ore tools and my miner helmet. Like I said I must be doing it wrong. I am pretty sure I need 500 to 600 turns each day and I am never getting that amount.

    Signed
    Willing to ho for turns



    You do know that you can buy cheap ore and sell it to another trader for more money, right? There are also mining facilities you can set up and make your doppels mine for you.
  • Posted By: adsynth  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "munk":  

    Food and drinks have been gone over a few times now, and I think we're about where we want to be, with a bit of fine tuning. Drinks, for the most part, had turns increased. I think you'll be surprised how many viable foods/drinks there are now, and hopefully this change will increase interest in actually making things to eat and drink.


    I like what I've seen so far with the new stats. And, damn, there's a lot of food stuffs in the Universe.


      Quote "munk":  

      Quote "Kimo":  

    I know there is 1 real dumb ass in every group and I will raise my hand. I think I am doing it all wrong. I have had no problem with trade accumulation at 33 but I am starving for turns everyday. I can never have enough even if I max out my power ups with space monkeys. I like to mine and never have enough turns to mine up to my trade max. Yes I am using two ore tools and my miner helmet. Like I said I must be doing it wrong. I am pretty sure I need 500 to 600 turns each day and I am never getting that amount.

    Signed
    Willing to ho for turns



    You do know that you can buy cheap ore and sell it to another trader for more money, right? There are also mining facilities you can set up and make your doppels mine for you.


    Kimo, I had easily accumulated 2 million SB just by using mining factories, Dopples, and selling ore at the highest prices. This might require you to seek a Society that holds the best mining grounds or be creative in your Societal alignment.
  • Posted By: Julionics  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    So normally I would be farming for stuff to get more turns and to sell off items or make items for auction for cash. Today I was farming for materials to make food/drink stuffs for better trades (I.E. Galactiyaki Burger stupid me forgot to buy galactic comfort when I was at 32). I like the change but will take some getting used to. I did see that I still had a bunch of turns after the farming as I was only farming a small amount to play with what gives me the best trades per eating which would mean that I could continue to farm for materials or mine for ore to sell etc.
  • Posted By: Kimo  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Can someone either post or pm an idiot proof help on all these changes. I am all sorts of confused. Like now we are destroying the ability to get added turns? if so, that means the players that have really high power are now solid. Nobody can reach their power without turns I guess. Why do all this all now and not at the start of the cycle when everyone is basically starting even? Does this mean it is not good to stay at 33? Should I just keep dimiting? I don't know what is going on and I will adjust accordingly but I have to understand how the new SSW works.
  • Posted By: xKiv  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "Kimo":  

    Should I just keep dimiting?



    It's worth noting that dimits are +900 turns each. Dimiting would let me play over 1k turns every day even without eating any turngen.
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "Kimo":  

    Like now we are destroying the ability to get added turns? if so, that means the players that have really high power are now solid. Nobody can reach their power without turns I guess.



    You're thinking of "stats" not "power", as "power" is a completely useless stat. the reason the high-stat people now are high-stat because either:

    1) they dimit a lot

    or

    2) they bot farm

    What we are doing is encouraging the first while discouraging and dis-incentivizing the second. Dimiters are basically unaffected by these changes, while farmers hopefully will be encouraged to trade instead of farm, which does not give much in the way of stats.

    Now, what I think you're asking is "how can I maximize my turns and stats, because I like to kill mobs and be strong in PvP?" The answer to that is: Yes, dimit a lot.
  • Posted By: Kimo  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    Ok, thank for the reply. As you can see, I am not afraid to dimit. Off to dimiting I go ...
  • Posted By: Vladrin  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    I don't see that anybody has brought this up yet and I've been mildly confused. I mostly bot out my mining cause as munk stated auto-accosting isn't very fun but manual mining is even less fun. When incentivising trading are you not also incentivising mining and wouldn't that put a similar strain on the server?
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "Vladrin":  

    I don't see that anybody has brought this up yet and I've been mildly confused. I mostly bot out my mining cause as munk stated auto-accosting isn't very fun but manual mining is even less fun. When incentivising trading are you not also incentivising mining and wouldn't that put a similar strain on the server?



    Mining takes turns, so it has been impacted a small amount because turns are now harder to get at 33, so if anything, bot mining has been made a bit less incentivized as a side effect. Mining doesn't do much to the server unless you're pounding away with no delay in your script (don't do that). Use the default 3-sec delay in your script and you're fine.

    Short answer, rather have you auto-mine than auto-farm. (:
  • Posted By: Arikel  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    With all these changes to the game and a greater importance placed on dimiting how is this going to affect those of us that don't really like to dimit to play the game? Will this greatly disadvantage people, like me, that maybe dimit one time [if at all] during the cycle.

    I am an auto accost user, I don't do it every day cause some times I mine and sometimes I just let my turns sit around - but I use it mostly because all the clicking hurts my hand and I need that for RL...

    I personally prefer the end game content the factories and cooperative prepping for the war - I like the cooperative part of that - and I don't care for the dimitting aspect - so because I don't dimit, will all these new changes severely handicap me [and others like me] in the long run? Too, how might these changes affect large group vs. small group warfare?
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "Arikel":  

    With all these changes to the game and a greater importance placed on dimiting how is this going to affect those of us that don't really like to dimit to play the game? Will this greatly disadvantage people, like me, that maybe dimit one time [if at all] during the cycle.

    I am an auto accost user, I don't do it every day cause some times I mine and sometimes I just let my turns sit around - but I use it mostly because all the clicking hurts my hand and I need that for RL...

    I personally prefer the end game content the factories and cooperative prepping for the war - I like the cooperative part of that - and I don't care for the dimitting aspect - so because I don't dimit, will all these new changes severely handicap me [and others like me] in the long run? Too, how might these changes affect large group vs. small group warfare?



    It's important to read and think about all changes, not just focus on one aspect. What is being moderated is auto-farming. literally *everything* else has been improved. You're not required to dimit, and if you like end-game, then you'll enjoy the extra trades, better returns on trading and the fact that mining is basically unchanged. There's also no particular feature keeping you from using auto-accost to save strain on your wrist, so feel free to do it. Just be aware that it won't be as rewarding in cash and trash as it used to be.

    Here's the absolute upshot: if your game plan required auto-farming and buying high-turn food at stores to fuel your end-game, tough luck. Go mine, trade and build factories. (:
  • Posted By: Arikel  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    I'm okay with less trash and stuff - I usually use auto-accost to use up turns and adjust/add to my alignment.

    As most of my end game relies on factories & trading anyway so that's good. I was just curious/concerned if there might be a greater advantage/emphasis on dimits and if that will cause harm to those who do not do it.
  • Posted By: munk  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

      Quote "Arikel":  

    I was just curious/concerned if there might be a greater advantage/emphasis on dimits and if that will cause harm to those who do not do it.



    probably best to think of it this way:

    1) those who don't dimit have the time and trades to amass a nice set of factories and a strong drone presence early. The more effort and time you spend trading/mining/buying and building drones, the more likely you'll be a valuable part of a winning team in drone warfare.

    2) those who dimit a lot will not be able to do much building early on, but will be building up a bonus that will help them catch up if they stop dimitting and start building. The longer they take to build up that bonus (and really only Capitalist is helpful in endgame catchup), the behinder they are when war heats up and the more building they'll have to catch up on. On the plus side, they have the flexibility to instead concentrate their dimit bonus on a stat path that makes them better at PvP, and if I recall correctly, good PvP'ers were pretty handy to have in the last skirmish. However, that flexibility comes at the price of having to rebuild their stats every dimit, and that takes a lot of work.

    so yes, Dimitters get something non-dimitters don't - they get flexibility and the ability to switch roles and be able to build up those roles at a faster clip than non-dimitters. That is the prize for doing the hard work, and that is as it should be. The down side is, generally speaking, time wasted doing the dimits instead of building.

    It's important to remember that before these changes, non-dimitters easily gained parity or superiority over dimitters simply by virtue of how much they auto-farmed. I believe Crash mentioned that the cash return for farming was something like 2-2.5x times the return for trading, plus you got tons of free stats. I basically considered that to be pretty exploitey because robotting the game *was* way more optimal than actually *playing*. There are many ways SSW does not wish to be KoL, and one of them is we do not particularly want the top players to be robots, and we don't want farming to be an optimal choice. (:
  • Posted By: TFwO  homeworld | blog | gallery | player profile

    can i just say real quick love all the new changes. i was just expecting a quick reunion and suddenly the game is better than ever.